Why is it so hard to buy stuff?
Oct. 22nd, 2003 03:12 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
tugrikThere's something fundamentally wrong with big business when it's this hard to identify and purchase a product.
In this case I have a medium sized network that I want to buy some network management tools for. Doing a little net-research, I find the best package to evaluate would be Cisco's "Small network" version of CiscoView. The problem, of course, is you can't just go down to Cisco and actually buy a CiscoView product. Heck, you can't even go on their website and get a good, concise description along with screenshots and things to show to a manager... and heaven help you if you want a price list (even if just MSRP).
No... you have to get on the phone and go through an interview process with no less than three people before you get forwarded to an Inside Sales Rep. This rep then provides "pre-sales technical support" to help you determine which product is right for you. This takes a while and requires a lot more information than you can give without a non-disclosure-agreement -- so off to the fax machine we go, with a pause for the legal guys to nod and agree to stuff. Now you can talk sizes and numbers, and this goes off to a set of engineers. They take a few days to get back to you.
The answer comes back -- and it's "you should use the Small Network version of CiscoView". I knew this before I even called. So I ask for prices -- "oh, no, we can't give you that. Instead let us look up a Value Added Reseller in your area and hand you off to their team."
So now I get assigned to a local company that resells for Cisco. These people now don't want to believe what I found for myself and what Cisco then confirmed. Instead they think I need ANOTHER product, but first could I please describe my entire network and layout to them so they can determine if it's right? They are a Value Added(tm) reseller, after all, and part of the extra happy-sized bill they'll eventually send me will be for all this added value.
It's been a week now. I've got NDA's signed with two companies and hours of phone traffic. I still don't have a final price on the rather simple software I need, nor do I have the remotest hope of being given some demonstration/evaluation editions to, oh, actually try out before shelling out thousands of dollars. Finally able to wrangle a specific part number out of the reseller, I head out on the 'net and find a 'just buy it, dammit' company. Give them the part number, get a price, write up a quote and send it off for management to peek at. We'll most likely Corporate-AMEX it from these guys. Meanwhile all these people blowing all this time trying to "Value Add" and "Pre-Sales Support" me aren't getting the sale. It's these faceless web-site guys who actually gave me the price, instead.
Why can't there just be a Cisco Store where you go down and buy what you need? This whole provider/VAR/reseller/supporter/more-money-for-the-middleman architecture just plain sucks. It's nothing but a whole slew of middle-manager types standing in line with their hands out, wanting their piece of the software-industry pie.
Next up, HP Openview. At least HP has enough of a clue to provide evaluation software to try out and MSRP listings on their website. Cisco could learn a thing or two from them.
In this case I have a medium sized network that I want to buy some network management tools for. Doing a little net-research, I find the best package to evaluate would be Cisco's "Small network" version of CiscoView. The problem, of course, is you can't just go down to Cisco and actually buy a CiscoView product. Heck, you can't even go on their website and get a good, concise description along with screenshots and things to show to a manager... and heaven help you if you want a price list (even if just MSRP).
No... you have to get on the phone and go through an interview process with no less than three people before you get forwarded to an Inside Sales Rep. This rep then provides "pre-sales technical support" to help you determine which product is right for you. This takes a while and requires a lot more information than you can give without a non-disclosure-agreement -- so off to the fax machine we go, with a pause for the legal guys to nod and agree to stuff. Now you can talk sizes and numbers, and this goes off to a set of engineers. They take a few days to get back to you.
The answer comes back -- and it's "you should use the Small Network version of CiscoView". I knew this before I even called. So I ask for prices -- "oh, no, we can't give you that. Instead let us look up a Value Added Reseller in your area and hand you off to their team."
So now I get assigned to a local company that resells for Cisco. These people now don't want to believe what I found for myself and what Cisco then confirmed. Instead they think I need ANOTHER product, but first could I please describe my entire network and layout to them so they can determine if it's right? They are a Value Added(tm) reseller, after all, and part of the extra happy-sized bill they'll eventually send me will be for all this added value.
It's been a week now. I've got NDA's signed with two companies and hours of phone traffic. I still don't have a final price on the rather simple software I need, nor do I have the remotest hope of being given some demonstration/evaluation editions to, oh, actually try out before shelling out thousands of dollars. Finally able to wrangle a specific part number out of the reseller, I head out on the 'net and find a 'just buy it, dammit' company. Give them the part number, get a price, write up a quote and send it off for management to peek at. We'll most likely Corporate-AMEX it from these guys. Meanwhile all these people blowing all this time trying to "Value Add" and "Pre-Sales Support" me aren't getting the sale. It's these faceless web-site guys who actually gave me the price, instead.
Why can't there just be a Cisco Store where you go down and buy what you need? This whole provider/VAR/reseller/supporter/more-money-for-the-middleman architecture just plain sucks. It's nothing but a whole slew of middle-manager types standing in line with their hands out, wanting their piece of the software-industry pie.
Next up, HP Openview. At least HP has enough of a clue to provide evaluation software to try out and MSRP listings on their website. Cisco could learn a thing or two from them.
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no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 03:28 pm (UTC)"Value Added"
Date: 2003-10-22 03:33 pm (UTC)I'm dealing with this, right now, for both a Firewall, and a SAN solution. I know, in the end, I'll get the part numbers, buy it myself, install it myself, and save tons of cash.
-=B.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 04:20 pm (UTC)Re: "Value Added"
Date: 2003-10-22 04:29 pm (UTC)EWWWWWW!!!
no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 04:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 07:39 pm (UTC)Pencil. Kidney. Go.
Re: "Value Added"
Date: 2003-10-22 10:27 pm (UTC)-=B.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 07:14 am (UTC)I hear you.
Date: 2003-10-23 07:27 am (UTC)For extra Peeve Points, we have web sites that make me download a binary executable which will calculate proces for me when given parameters. I think Alpha did that a while back, but it's been a few years.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 09:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-23 11:32 am (UTC)Help to the point of not actually getting the product is no help at all.
Help to the point of, well, getting help...
It's a hard balance, which most places seem to skip.